If you liked "In the Garden of North American Martyrs"...
If you liked Tobias Wolff's "In the Garden of North American Martyrs"....
then you might also enjoy ”A&P” by John Updike and "The Jockey" by Carson McCullers. For Friday, read the first of those stories and post a 4-5 sentence reflection/reader response here as a comment to this blog post. You also need to REPLY DIRECTLY to 2-3 of your classmates comments (think: Instagram/Facebook feed, but slightly more detailed than a series of emojis or five word responses!) as part of this assignment. There's no need to include actual textual evidence in either your original response or when you comment on classmates' work, but you certainly can. If you're having a hard time generating ideas, feel free to look back to the short story questions we used last term. I just want to get a sense of what you thought about the story you've chosen; there's no pressure, so have some fun and be creative. I can't wait to have a virtual discussion with you!
then you might also enjoy ”A&P” by John Updike and "The Jockey" by Carson McCullers. For Friday, read the first of those stories and post a 4-5 sentence reflection/reader response here as a comment to this blog post. You also need to REPLY DIRECTLY to 2-3 of your classmates comments (think: Instagram/Facebook feed, but slightly more detailed than a series of emojis or five word responses!) as part of this assignment. There's no need to include actual textual evidence in either your original response or when you comment on classmates' work, but you certainly can. If you're having a hard time generating ideas, feel free to look back to the short story questions we used last term. I just want to get a sense of what you thought about the story you've chosen; there's no pressure, so have some fun and be creative. I can't wait to have a virtual discussion with you!
John Updike's "A&P" is similar to Tobias Wolff's "In the Garden of North American Martyrs' because they both portray the main event of females overcoming their stereotypical role in society, which is subordinate to men. In "A&P," three teenage girls walk into an A&P grocery store only wearing bathing suits. The male employees confidently stare at them as they walk around. The girls are aware of the staring, but the story displays how they hold the power over the men as they chose to not acknowledge the stares, leaving the men without validation and preventing them from taking the girls' power away. The two short stories slightly differ because in "A&P," one of the male characters undergoes a change when the girls in the story are treated unfairly solely because of their gender. Initially, the main character, Sammy, participates in the gauking and jokes made by his fellow male employees, but when the store manager, Lengel, tells the girls they are embarrassing the store, are being distracting, and that the store's policy is for them to have their shoulders covered, Sammy realizes that his boss is practicing sexist behavior. The turning point in the story occurs when Sammy comes to this realization and stands up for what he knows to be wrong. He tells his boss that his treatment towards the girls was unfair and decides to quit his job in the moment, even while being unsure of what the world has in store for him, besides the grocery store. Instead of staying quiet due to his fear of the unknown, Sammy choses to disassociate himself with the stereotypical male perspective.
ReplyDelete-Jada January
I never thought of the girls that way, but now that I've read this ^^^ I totally agree. I think the addition of labeling the women "queenie" and "the plump one that I liked better from the back" further demonstrates how Sammy went from one end of the spectrum to the other (by noticing what he was thinking and then taking charge and quitting). Great take!!!
DeleteGood! I think it's important to note that this story was published in the early 1960s, right before the big countercultural moments of women's liberation, civil rights, the youth movement, hippies, etc. Updike was strangely prescient in this way...Sammy sees the change in the form of the girls and Lengel's attitude towards them, but he's also not able to entirely dissociate himself with both gender and class...I find his decision to quit so heartbreaking. That last line! He thinks he's made this big noble gesture, but the girls don't care, and he's not going anywhere at this point.
DeleteI love this take on the story -- I never would have thought about it as two separate instances where in one a woman changes and in another, the man changes. I think this is also because of that initial power dynamic... both stories portray women overcoming gender norms but Updike gives the women the power at the beginning of the story, forcing the man to change, when it is because of the man that Mary has to change in "In the Garden of North American Martyrs."
DeleteI agree with toby- I really like the way that you analyzed the boss telling the girls off and the effect that it had on Sammy. I saw Sammy quitting as more of internalizing the girls' liberated sort of behavior, but I also really like that seeing the true way that sexualization is an oppressive force especially on young girls was enough to push him to leave that environment. Also big props to Sammy for being mad enough by the boss' relatively fair treatment of the girls to hurt his family ties and quit his job.
DeleteI totally agree with Layla, Annie, and Toby on this. I like the way you discussed the turning point of the story, and discussing Sammy's sexual liberation, or lack there of I suppose. Your word choice is also excellent in this response and it is so readable. Well done!!!
DeleteIn John Updike's "A&P" no one really knows why sammy quit his job. Although it can be inferred that he quit because of Lengel sexist behavior which "embarrassed" the girls, I personally believe that it goes deeper than this. Sammy, being in his teenage years finds working in the A&P somewhat boring, which is why he finds such entertainment and amusement from the girls who come into the store. Therefore the girls symbolise and injection of freshness and adventure that he's missing in his own life. Sammy projects "queens" life as a more desirable more refined life than his own, stating that: "All of a sudden I slid right down her voice
ReplyDeleteinto her living room. Her father and the other men were standing around in ice cream coats and bow ties and the women were in sandals picking up herring
snacks on toothpicks off a big plate and they were all holding drinks the color of
water with olives and sprigs of mint in them," while at his house they drink lemonade from tall glasses with cartoons on them. Ideally this is what sammy wants. So when lengel insults these girls in a sense he also insults his dream which in turn makes him quit his job.
-Bryan Lugo
Im sorry. I don't know why I put that quote in there, i should've just summarized it.
DeleteI love that you put the quote! It's such a good one...Sammy is swept up in what these girls represent, which is a life that he doesn't have and, by the end of the story, he realizes he may never have. Quitting, while a grand gesture, was a really silly thing for him to do given the reality of his life, but I think he's so afraid that he's going to become like Lengel and the "sheep" who go up and down the aisles instead of like Queenie's parents and their friends. That last line always gets me...there's no real way out for Sammy in this moment.
DeleteWow! I really like your different take on the story! I never thought about it that way. Looking at intin this new perspective, I feel like Sammy just finds himself feeling trapped as he can see his future becoming stagnant and him never being defined as more than just a grocery store employee. But this is interesting because in the end, he quits his job and this actually results in him feeling even less valuable because the girls aren't even there to validate his dramatic exit from the only thing in his life that gave him a sense of security. So should Sammy quitting his job be seen as a great success or a great failure or setback?
DeleteI love this view of the story- I agree that Sammy probably has more depth than to be swayed enough to quit his job solely because of seeing a group of girls in bikinis feel liberated, and I love the way that the quote about how he sees their lives is incorporated- that's one of the best ones detail-wise for sure. I agree that he more likes what the girls represent than how they look- he doesn't really say directly he thinks any of them are all that pretty he just describes them in detail and I think that proves that he is more inspired by their attitudes than just drawn to their looks enough to quit his job and chase them down. Also, I think that had he been more interested in just the girls, he would have just run outside and gotten their numbers or something- he must have some deeper desire for freedom to up and quit his job at such an isolated incident.
DeleteJohn Updike's "A&P" tells the story of a man, Sammy, and his process of leaving the herd. Towards the beginning of the story, Sammy is found objectifying the women that walked in to A&P, highlighting a prime example of the male gaze. This objectification is shared among the men that work there, and so making him one of the sheep that he talks about -- the sheep that roam the aisles. While its customers who are described as sheep, Sammy becomes one following the examples of the herd. However, the story progresses in such a way where he begins to realize the problematic language and the shadow of the male gaze he's trapped in. But his transition starts through the presence of the three women, expressing their individuality and slowly gaining the power to speak up for the women, finding his own voice just as Mary in "In the Garden of the North American Martyrs". His voice is finally found through his resignation and disobedience as a way to escape the norm just as Mary finds her voice through her deafness, again escaping the prison that is conformity.
ReplyDeleteI LOVE that you included the sheep analogy, that really stuck out to me when I read "A&P." I also appreciate how you've included Sammy's blossoming as he overcomes his "male gaze" and "sexist" tendencies. This was a very empowering take on Sammy's character change and I enjoyed reading it!!!
DeleteGreat job with the sheep and the male gaze! Isn't this a great story? As I said to Jada, the fact that Updike is writing this in the early 60s always blows me away since he doesn't know yet that the counterculture is coming, but Sammy is right on the cusp of it. He's a little early, though, so his decision to quit is pointless and, heartbreakingly, probably really bad for him and his family.
DeleteI completely overlooked that aspect of it! I think the fact that this was written before the counterculture movement really took off makes the last lines not only more tragic but so much more powerful. While Sammy does not eventually achieve what he's trying to achieve, it gives representation to the changes in society that were about to ensue. Updike's word at this point is solely to tell society to make choices and break from the previous norm, no matter the cost.
DeleteI also love the sheep connection you made here! I didn't even realize what great significance and symbolism the sheep actually held in the story! I think the connection you made to a sheep's herd and how that compares to the males in the store and the stereotypical male view on women is so strong. And now it makes so much sense why Sammy compares himself to sheep, because he finally gains the courage to depart from the large quantity of men who may have these views back then. Leaving the herd can be a hard thing to do, since when parting from a big group, one can easily feel shame and isolation, which is what the last line depicts that Sammy felt after making his final choice to quit his job.
DeleteIn Carson McCullers’s “The Jockey,” McCullers depicts the torments of ‘the little guy’ through comparing life to a horse race where each player can only achieve what the superiors allow. Each character is referred to by their designated role, the Jockey, the trainer, the bookie, and the rich man. It is through these archetypes that McCullers reveals the struggle of escaping the role you are given. In addition, through the extensive description of the Jockey’s clothing and short stature, it is clear that the Jockey is trying to hide his status and appearance by dressing it up with silks and gold. This further emphasizes the difference between him and his superiors. At the bar, the Jockey attempts to maintain his anger, to “be reasonable,” like his superiors demand of him, but in the end, he decides not to conform; The Jockey exudes his frustration, calling the exploiting bunch “libertines” (someone who acts without morals). Just as in “In the Garden of North American Martyrs” when Mary decides to speak up, so too does the Jockey in hopes of beating the game that he knows he is merely a pawn in.
ReplyDeleteYou and Toby have done a great job connecting Mary to Sammy and the Jockey...which do you think is the most successful in speaking up, if any? Nice note on the clothing...I love what McCullers does both with the clothes and the details of the food and drink and the way the libertines are just eating and drinking as the Jockey wastes away physically and emotionally.
DeleteWith Mary, the readers are left to decide how successful her outburst was, seeing as there is no following scene, whereas with the Jockey, we see the other characters shrugging it off and going back to their business which would make me think that the Jockey is stuck in this perpetual cycle of subordination and insignificance. Sad :(
DeleteIt is sad...I agree with you, though, that no one is ultimately going to pay attention to anything the jockey says. They won't even think about him after he leaves.
DeleteIts true they wont think about him at all :( --- I think you can really tell that that is the case looking. to when the three men only say "that's a pity," referring to the irish kid, not to mention they commented on the fact that he wasn't a bad rider, seeing that as the only character trait of his. The Jockey's outburst would be such a minor inconvenience and while the Jockey may have seen it as a step in the right direction, it likely would not have caused any change. boo society
DeleteIn John Updike’s “A&P,” Updike explores the theme of ‘the times’ affecting the presentation of one’s sexuality. Both Sammy and the girls undergo a shift in how they present themselves sexually. Sammy goes from making comments on the girls’ appearance like “if she’d been born at the right time, they would have burned her over in Salem,” to quitting his job after the manager told the girls there weren’t dressed decently enough to be in the store. The girls shift from holding themselves high in their tight, revealing bathing suits to being ashamed since “policy is what the Kingpin wants. What the others want in juvenile delinquency.” What is interesting about the narrative is that Updike puts women back in their place, but moves the men closer to where they would become in the following years with the women’s rights movement.
ReplyDeleteI love how you're connecting the flip in power dynamics to the social and cultural shifts that are about to happen. It's one of the coolest things about this story, to me.
DeleteWhile I haven't read "A&P," your description of Sammy and the girls shifting to conform into the system they have been told to live in seems to contrast the resolution of "In the Garden of North American Martyrs." I also loved the fact that you brought up how the story sets up the following women's rights movement because I think Wolff's story does something similar by setting up the ideology of the modern women's rights movement, which is all about speaking up for oneself and not being silenced.
DeleteCarson McCullers's short story, "The Jockey," portrays the aspect of life as being similar to a horse race. The comparison illuminates how the jockeys are doing the hard work in order to win the races, but instead the wealthy men around the life of horse racing are the ones who receive the credit, which results in a substantially better life. The trainer, the bookie, and the rich man all feel that they represent a higher status than the jockey as they all presume opinions about him while he stands at the opposite side of the building, which automatically makes the jockey know he's an outsider to them. The three men enjoy making the jockey feel "unreasonable" for being upset over his close friend's accident. They make him feel like it's unacceptable for a man his age to be emotional, so they call him "kid" and mock him by his name "Bitsy" to make him feel weak and smaller than them. "The Jockey" and "In the Garden of North American Martyrs" are similar because they both end with the main character experiencing a big outburst of emotions against the people that constantly belittle them. They are slightly different because Mary's outburst displays how she overcomes the men's arrogance by finding her voice and sticking up for herself and other women, but the Jockey's outburst leaves the readers thinking that the Jockey still feels frustrated with his position in life and stuck in headspace where he'll never be good enough to sit at a table with men with such caliber because he will never be anything more than a jockey.
ReplyDeleteGreat details to capture the power dynamics in this interaction...do you think that part of the difference in the endings between the two stories is about the time period? That maybe the earlier 20th century setting of "The Jockey" makes it easier for those who had been in power (the old white men) to maintain that power? Of course that raises the question of whether or not Mary truly has power at the end of "Garden"...
DeleteI love that you mentioned the differences between the two endings having to do with the ultimate emotion of each of the main characters -- going based off of what Dr. Hynes said, I think that it is definitely attributed to the specific time periods, and I think bringing up the question of "who has the power" makes both stories that much sadder:(
DeleteSpeaking on what Dr. Hynes said, I didn't think about the time period, but now that you bring it up I think it definitely has to do with the men in the story being able to easily maintain their power over the Jockey and also makes it harder for the Jockey to rise up against them because this was a much more rare occasion compared to the later time period that "Garden..." took place in.
DeleteI love this short mainly because I used to be into horses a lot when i was younger, so most of the movies id watch were about the racing industry. The three men in Carson McCullers's short story "The Jockey," represent the top of the hierarchy in horse racing and also symbolise high status in society. My take on why he lashes out in the end is because he's irritated at the fact the three men don't see him for what he truly is; a normal human being. To the men he's about the same as a horse. The trainer makes this very clear when he assumes the role of also training the jockey telling him to "behave" and "be reasonable, while also making comments about his weight gain. In essence the jockey is being treated as a horse. To his dismay he realizes the men only care about his physical condition and performance rather than his emotional state of being. There is a really good movie I recommend to watch called Seabiscuit. I promise it's so good!!!! i've watches it about 10 times. It touches with the message the story is trying to convey and it also about horse racing.
Delete-Bryan lugo
I love these personal connections, Bryan! I also like that you highlighted the word "behave"--it's like they're treating him like a little kid as well as an animal.
DeleteBryan I really like the way that you saw the jockey's desire to be accepted not just into their upper class side of the horse racing world, but as a human being. This view makes a lot of sense because it feels more like an act of vengance for his friend who was hurt because he was treated as a horse and not as a human being. When the rich men talk about the injured jockey, they always say "these things happen" which is a complete cop out and emphasizes how they view those who have less than they do as less than human.
Delete"The Jockey" by Carson McCullers tells a story through the lense of a horse race, portraying a situation of class struggle and empowerment. The Jockey, working for the gain of the rich is, by the three men in a power position, deemed crazy and unreasonable, simply for exhibiting grief for a fellow jockey. The rich in this situation care not about the jockey, but what the he has to offer, basing a person off of what they are capable of, seeing them as an object. It is due to the injury of "the irish kid" that Bitsy is compelled to go against the system and speak up as an act of empowerment. Throughout the whole of the story, the three men in every way attempt to patronize the jockey, from calling him "kid" to giving him a plate of fries at the dinner table. But through the realization that the three men sit on their high horse (haha get it) and treat society with ill tempered commentary, The jockey speaks up in such a way to combat society, just as Mary in "in the garden of north american martyrs" and Sammy in "A&P." While all three stories depict an individual rising up against society in a powerful way, this story has one key difference: It is now not about gender, but about class struggle and an abusive hierarchy, a dangerous institution which McCullers was able to bring to light.
ReplyDeleteI like how you pinpointed the difference of themes between the stories because I think it's important to notice how the stories all relate to each other through the way that someone or some group is outcasted from another because of something they cannot help, but it's also important to remember that there's not just one, but numerous differences in a human society that can bring up this type of behavior from others who believe they sit on a "higher horse" as you cleverly put it ;).
DeleteNice pun, Toby! And good job drawing the three stories together...I'm also interested in the "Irish kid." Given the time this was published, I wonder if that's another element in the hierarchy. Being Irish would have put him in a lower social category at the time, and, combined with "kid," would have been a double whammy. Kind of like Sammy being young and working class and Mary being older and a woman.
Delete"A&P" is a very well written short story about three girls who encounter contrasting beliefs about a woman's role in the world, and the realities about the world that they come from and the freedom that this world and attitude allow them to have. Their nonchalance in walking into a grocery store with only bikinis on makes them out to be either more sexually liberated and almost licentious or a representation of the rebirth of culture that comes with every new generation. The way that they are immediately sexualized instead of chastised by the sales clerk lends itself towards the more provocative way of viewing the story, and reinforces the polarized roles of the sexes that are much more characteristic of older generations. The way that the leader of the girls walks, however, especially when she knows that they are watching her, lends itself to a more boundary pushing view of the story. She seems to be aware of the imposing belief that the men who are watching her have that she is something that is deserving of being stared at without any respect before she straightens up, looks dead ahead, and keeps walking. She should be the one named Queenie. I think Updike does a great job of setting the story in a way that allows the reader to interpret the way that the male cashiers view these girls, and the moral associations that go with the ways that the reader could view the story. By describing their pudginess, paleness, and young faces, while contrastingly describing their bikinis and what of their bodies they leave exposed, it becomes more and more clear that these girls come from a world where this more casual exposing of their bodies is not so sexualized. I also love the end, and how these girls' liberation allows the cashier to also feel liberated enough to quit his job.
ReplyDeleteI love that detail about how she walks as well...it's like she's realizing her own physical power, but it's also sad that she's starting to realize that, especially in that time, her power will be concentrated in her physicality. Since she's the most conventionally beautiful, she's the most powerful.
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ReplyDeleteThe Jockey is an interesting story about class struggle and societal roles that is simplified down into the context of an interaction between all of the power players of a horse race. The rich man at first seems untouchable and the jockey weak and isolated, but as the forces that hold this part of society together are challenged by the forces of grief, anger, and resentment towards the world the jockey must live in, he breaks the boundaries that previously held him back and approaches the men at the table. The rich man's untouchable vibe is broken as the jockey comes and, out of his anger at the world which these three men represent, eats some fries and buys a drink on the rich men, or more symbolically, the upper class. This resentment from the jockey, or the lower class, is something that has always existed, but the drama of this scene makes me think that this is the first time the jockey has done something this radical to stand up for himself and for the lower class. This change in the drive and action of the jockey is spurred by the injury of his friend, which represents the strength that can be found in numbers, regardless of their traditional role in society. Though this story was a bit more vague and up for interpretation than some of our others, I like the way that it is a timeless story put into a situation in which the roles in society that each character plays are very clear.
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